Normally we use the Enhlish name whe adding a credit.
A user changed the PAN from Imre Kertész to Kertész Imre, the native variant.

Not a good idea, should be reverted IMO.

Enhlish name whe adding a credit

Wow, it's early in the morning and I can't write correctly: "English name when adding a credit" of course ;-)

I agree that in this case the PAN should've remained as "Imre Kertész". He's at least relatively well-known outside his own country, and his work has been translated into various languages. Another example I found is Lugosi Béla - which I think should be "Bela Lugosi".

That said, having a strict rule is more trouble than it's worth. Converting everything to the Latin alphabet and/or English conventions is a lot of work, and it's very subjective whether it would make things easier.

I don't think we should change PANs from their original form unless it causes notable usability issues. That means that for example Russian authors can stay in Cyrillic unless they are well-known outside Russia and an established Latin transliteration exists, and Hungarian names can use the lastname-firstname order if the person is not known outside Hungary. This way the PAN will be in the 'most usable' form for the main group of users that deal with the PAN, if that makes sense.

That said, having a strict rule is more trouble than it's worth

Yes, but if there's no rule at all, users will change these credit names back and forth.
The most pragmatic and easiest way for me: If the name appears in the English wiki page: use it. If not: use the native name.
I know that this is not perfect, but it's easy to handle and it's exactly the way I'm doing it when adding a new credit.

I know that you prefer a more relaxed approach, but regarding my experience with open data bases: If there is no rule users will use this for arbitrarily changes for their own purposes. I've seen World Wars IV to XII on discogs because of lacking precise rules ;-)

Thx...I've looked for that part, but I didn't find it.
Imre Kertész and Bela Lugosi obviously belongs to that category

Imre Kertész and Bela Lugosi obviously belongs to that category

If we're literal, only the PAN swap part is relevant here (and we've being quite relaxed about that too), and only in the Imre Kertész case. The Lugosi Béla entry was created that way, so basically the burden of proof is on us if we want to change it.

The rest of the guidelines are about Latin transliterations, which is not the case here as Hungarian uses the Latin alphabet.

But, IIRC this is the approach that has been applied to a variety of language-based conventions in Discogs, so maybe it could be updated to something more generic, to apply to more than just transliterated names.

Slightly off-topic:

I've seen World Wars IV to XII on discogs because of lacking precise rules ;-)

Haha, World Wars in Discogs happen for a variety of reasons, also for guidelines being too specific and rigid, not allowing any flexibility even when it would be needed. ;-)

I think having two additional name fields in the artist profile would be nice.
There also should be an option to set one of them to standard name.

Something like:
Name: Whatever was entered when adding the artist
English/Latin transcription: Imre Kertész
Original language: Kertész Imre

Both fields should be optional and only replace a single name if both fields are chosen, so there won't be any trouble for people who just want to add the artist through the submission form without editing it further.

Haha, World Wars in Discogs happen for a variety of reasons, also for guidelines being too specific and rigid, not allowing any flexibility even when it would be needed

I'm curious. Do you have an example?

I think having two additional name fields in the artist profile would be nice.

If we follow the more relaxed way, this might be a good solution: But 2 fields are enough IMO.

English/Latin transcription: Imre Kertész
Original language: Kertész Imre

  • a tag for the PAN

But maybe we should think big. No PAN at all!
What if we had a field, let's call it "name pool", where all the different name variants are equivalent. The first added name variant defines the name of the pool. Every variant is added to the pool once and then you can add the credit without PAN and without ANV.
At the moment you have to look for the correct PAN every time you make a new sub. With an existing "name pool" this would only be necessary if it's a new variant.
I don't know if this might be realized by the programmers, but I like the idea.

I wonder if it is possible to just display the name variations and/or make them searchable? That way also other language-based variants would be included.

I'm curious. Do you have an example?

There are plenty, but it's off-topic. It is mainly because the Discogs userbase tends to react negatively towards any changes. You know, minor design changes get 10-page forum threads. ;-)

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