Hi oggers, I have an item like http://www.biblio.gs/book/4952-English-Grammar-In-Use-With-Answers - 2nd edition / sixth printing, but my item reads same (2nd) edition, but sixth printing so what can I do? new entry with this printing variation or better adding an historial in release notes?
Thank you

Sorry, original release reads "2nd edition / 5th printing"

Does it look exactly the same as the sub you linked except for the 6th printing part?

If so, I'm thinking you should not make a new sub as some books have many dozens of printings.

I think this book is the fifty-first printing and I don't think we really want a new page for each one before it. So, other than the first edition, they should all be lumped together unless there is some variation or edit of some kind. http://www.biblio.gs/book/2620-The-Hobbit

I would create separate subs for all printings with the future marketplace in mind. This I have already done with a few printings of 1984.

If we think about discogs guidelines different artwork (including text) warrants a unique submission, I am all for this guideline coming over to this database.

So, in general, one submission per edition. At least perhaps we could need some kind of historical about the different printings just to follow up. Or: "Upt to sixth different printings in this second edition"

Personally I like the idea of one printing variant = one sub but if it's not thought enough, it all could be a mess. It would be needed develope:
a Main Master Release for original title
a subfolder for each translation
a sub subfolder for each edition into the present translation
a sub sub folder for each printing into the present edition

That way or...more opinions needed

I don't think that it is going to get anymore organised than one level of master release, having columns for edition and printing will help and a faceted search option would make it easy to locate specific copies.

I think this book is the fifty-first printing and I don't think we really want a new page for each one before it. So, other than the first edition, they should all be lumped together unless there is some variation or edit of some kind. http://www.biblio.gs/book/2620-The-Hobbit

What is a "variation" or "edit" big enough if the note about the nth printing isn't? Some books even have a date when the specific printing was done, hardly can lump those under one book entry, even if they were otherwise identical.

IMO drawing complicated artificial lines will complicate things, so for me it's either or: either we separate all printings, or we don't separate any printings. I'd say we start with separating all printings when it's possible. If it seems to be too much, then we should think about alternative options.

"If we think about discogs guidelines different artwork (including text) warrants a unique submission, I am all for this guideline coming over to this database." -maldoror

"What is a "variation" or "edit" big enough if the note about the nth printing isn't? Some books even have a date when the specific printing was done, hardly can lump those under one book entry, even if they were otherwise identical. " -mirva

So your proposition is if the printing is different in any way, even if the only change is "nth printing", then it should be a new sub?

I think I was against it not because I don't like the data, but because it would create messy master release pages as mentioned by emilianito1972 above. But, I suppose the devs can fix that and I shouldn't worry about it. As long as the data is entered, and the database can handle the number of entries we're talking about, then I suppose it would be alright.

that is my opinion also, any display issues can be solved by the developers

Don't know where to go... I think I won't start a new submission by now. I think this is a work between users and devs so waiting guidelines

OK, I have decided to take the plunge and submit these variations. The only way to tell the differences between these books is the printing numbers (added in notes).

http://www.biblio.gs/book/53933-Call-It-Courage
http://www.biblio.gs/book/1161-Call-It-Courage

http://www.biblio.gs/book/53926-The-Creatures-Of-Narnia
http://www.biblio.gs/book/1012-The-Creatures-Of-Narnia

The only way to tell the differences between these books is the printing numbers (added in notes).

I wonder if it would be useful to add fields for the edition and printing numbers, i.e.

Edition number: 1
Printing number: 5

Many books do have that info, and it kinda gets lost in the notes.

"I wonder if it would be useful to add fields for the edition and printing numbers, i.e.

Edition number: 1
Printing number: 5"
Even better, add state with a free text field.

For https://www.biblio.gs/book/65875-Cosmic-Engineers
Edition: 1
State: 1 - Blue cloth
Printing: 1

vs.

Edition: 1
State: 2 - Tan boards
Printing: 1

Admittedly, that generally involves a bit of outside research.

Even better, add state with a free text field.

Yeah. I was actually thinking whether it would be better if they were all free text fields, because the printing numbers can run pretty high.

But then, OTOH, it's easier to handle the data if it's standardized, for example for display purposes. That way also wouldn't need to worry about people getting confused about what for example "Edition" means (that's why I was originally suggesting "Edition number"), no one would enter things like "Limited Edition" there.

Admittedly, that generally involves a bit of outside research.

But I think we need to start including at some point, as the data is important to collectors - and to sellers.

That way also wouldn't need to worry about people getting confused about what for example "Edition" means (that's why I was originally suggesting "Edition number"), no one would enter things like "Limited Edition" there.

How about adding ToolTips that pop up when you hover on an item to the submission form? Limited is probably more applicable to State, where both a Trade and a Limited edition are released.

How about adding ToolTips that pop up when you hover on an item to the submission form?

I think that's a good idea, but we're probably still far away from that.

Limited is probably more applicable to State, where both a Trade and a Limited edition are released.

It is, but... There are also other editions, like Special Editions, Collector's Editions, Anniversary Editions, Deluxe Editions, etc. I'm not quite sure what we should do with these at the moment. In Discogs they are entered either as a Format tag, or to the format free text field, but here we don't have that possibility. In Filmogs you see users entering them as subtitles, but when you already have an actual subtitle, and it's a "Deluxe Anniversary Collector's Edition" which is also limited edition, it gets a bit cluttered.

OK, I have decided to take the plunge and submit these variations. The only way to tell the differences between these books is the printing numbers (added in notes).

http://www.biblio.gs/book/53933-Call-It-Courage
http://www.biblio.gs/book/1161-Call-It-Courage

http://www.biblio.gs/book/53926-The-Creatures-Of-Narnia
http://www.biblio.gs/book/1012-The-Creatures-Of-Narnia

I now have another to add where the only variation is the printer's key.
https://www.biblio.gs/book/82694-Who-Did-It
https://www.biblio.gs/book/82712-Who-Did-It

I just entered these:
https://www.biblio.gs/book/85998-How-to-Be-a-Villain-Evil-Laughs-Secret-Lairs-Master-Plans-and-More
https://www.biblio.gs/book/86254-How-to-Be-a-Villain-Evil-Laughs-Secret-Lairs-Master-Plans-and-More

Differences:
- Different printer's key (first printing vs. eight printing)
- Matte cover vs. glossy cover
- Different EAN 5 (90000 vs. 51295)

I've previously also entered these:
https://www.biblio.gs/book/58389-Joulutarinat
https://www.biblio.gs/book/58411-Joulutarinat

Differences:
- One says "third printing"
- Different printing year (2011 vs. 2012)

The thing is, not every book has a printer's key. I know Finnish books just mention the printing (i.e. "third printing).

Would this be too much?

Edition number:
Edition type:
Printing:
State:

Edition number: Ok, imo
Edition tye: you mean different dindings or cover textures? wood, silk,
Printing: or maybe Printing number?
State: not sure what you mean, i'm thinking about item condition: new, used, etc

I think Mirva mean cloth, shirting or whatever, but what do I know.
I would have translates it as condition too, but as it isn't a sales fatabase, I cannot imagine that.

Edition type: you mean different dindings or cover textures? wood, silk,

No, I meant things like "Limited Edition", "Standard Edition", "Collector's Edition", and so on. Sorry for being unclear. Obviously then "Edition Type" is not the best name.

But maybe we should have an option for the binding as well. :)

State: not sure what you mean

Sometimes a printing can have several states, for various reasons.
Here is a short explanation: http://www.travelinlibrarian.info/writing/editions/#state

A main section named "Format" with mayor formats (magazine, softcover, audiobook, etc.) including types of:
- Edition (Limited edition, Collector's Edition, Promo Edition etc.)
- Printing (Letterpress, offset, inkjet, etc)
- Binding (Glossy, Matte, Cloth, Wood, etc.)
- etc.

And a new section including:
Edition #
Printing #
Issue # ?
State #

And I think we should checking the format section, some of them seem to be format descriptions

Printing (Letterpress, offset, inkjet, etc)

Are these easy to tell apart? Because I know I wouldn't be able to tell the exact printing method without doing some extensive reading.

And a new section including:

Do we need a new section, or would they be fine in "Identifying Codes"? Issue Number is already there.

<Are these easy to tell apart?
I don't know, I'm thinking about discogs, I learned while entering info in db, still learning everyday from other users

About Issue, sorry I think it's the same as "State" http://www.babcockbooks.com/firstEditions.php#1stIssue

About a new section for Edition, Printing State (EPS) ok, it might be placed in "Identifying Codes" section. But not sure if a printing number is an identifier...

I still thinking all this is new for me, only a humble record collector... Not a librarian, not a book collector

Nor am I a librarian, but I am pretty sure that if you know the
- Country where the book is published
- The edition
- the imprint
Then the book is identifiable. i don't think more is neede to distinguish the items.

At least I have never seen 2 books that differs from one another if those parameters are the same.

But not sure if a printing number is an identifier...

Why not? I don't think it's too far-fetched. But I'm ok with a separate section too if others think it shouldn't be in the Identifying Codes.

Not a librarian, not a book collector

Me neither, but I know some book collectors. What is important to a librarian and what is important to a book collector are two different things. Book collectors will care about editions, printings, states, cloth colors, etc. - whatever it takes to identify the most valuable state, which is usually the earliest possible state. You know, the same way record collectors want first pressings, and a small difference can sometimes mean a thousand dollar difference in value. Books are no different.

"Nor am I a librarian, but I am pretty sure that if you know the
- Country where the book is published
- The edition
- the imprint
Then the book is identifiable. i don't think more is neede to distinguish the items."

Nonsense. A single printing of a single edition from a single country frequently exists in multiple states. If the first state is identifiable, it is generally more valuable.
Consider Gnome Press.
https://www.biblio.gs/book/65341-Judgment-Night
Exists in two states. Both first edition, both US, both first printing.
Different binding materials. Blue cloth with red lettering is the first state.

https://www.biblio.gs/book/66545-The-Carnelian-Cube
The second state of the first printing actually says "Second Printing." It's distinguishable from the true second printing based on binding material.

https://www.biblio.gs/book/65875-Cosmic-Engineers
First State: Blue cloth lettered in yellow.
Second State: Tan boards lettered in blue.

All of the above states are first edition, first printing.

From Arkham House:
https://www.biblio.gs/book/65698-Dark-Of-The-Moon-Poems-Of-Fantasy-And-The-Macabre
The book exists in a single state; the dust jacket exists in two states. The initial batch of dust jackets were eaten by silverfish, so they designed new jackets.

States of a single printing frequently can't be identified without research. Does your book exist in more than one state? If so, is one state identifiable as the first state? And there are so many ways two states can differ this should probably be left to the notes. States frequently differ in binding material, so a free text box for binding material would help.

I know I'm changing my position on a free text field for state, but how would you clearly define states for The Carnelian Cube without causing confusion?

Edition: First
Printing: First
State: 2; Second Printing

"Nonsense. A single printing of a single edition from a single country frequently exists in multiple states. If the first state is identifiable, it is generally more valuable. "

Well, I was wrong then. My apologies.
I have never experienced the binding to be be different though, but one has roo learn every day.
I have a suspicion that it is only newer books (last 10 years?) that differs in cloth- variations, as some modern marketingfuzz , just like variations in cloured vinyl. But maybe that is not thrue.

Anyway, it seems there is a need for state ( odd word for that, I think)

.......and I just looked at your links and found that it apparently isn't a 'new thing'.
Rest my case :)

how would you clearly define states for The Carnelian Cube without causing confusion?

I don't know, I think that one is going to need clarification in the notes no matter what. I think the State field should be maybe just for quick identification.

Well, I was wrong then. My apologies.

I'm sorry, I was too brusque with my Nonsense. I should have been more diplomatic.

Here's a good resource on states:
http://gnomepress.com/
If you look under Variants (drop-down list of titles), you'll see links to pages comparing the various states of Gnome Press titles, with photos.

The publisher, Martin Greenberg (who is different from anthologist Martin H. Greenberg), generally had to print large runs of generally 4000 to 5000 copies, and it then cost money to bind them. So he bound those he could sell quickly, and bound more if the first batch sold out using whatever binding material was at hand. It wasn't about "some modern marketingfuzz"; it was about available funds.

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